4.12 What the Celebrity Traitors taught me about imposter syndrome

THIS EPISODE CONTAINS MASSIVE SPOILERS!! Imposter syndrome is top of my mind at the moment because it’s the focus of my membership this quarter. I’m also utterly obsessed with The Traitors and have been loving the UK Celebrity Traitors which just finished. If you want to hear how the final five (and the winner in particular) made me reflect on imposter syndrome, and hear my tenuous links to an academic context, then check out this episode! If you haven’t seen it, and have no intention of watching it, no worries - you’ll still get some useful insight into overcoming imposter syndrome! 

If you liked this episode, you should check out “eight things PhD students and academics can learn from The Traitors”. I am apparently obsessed…. 

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I'm Dr Vikki Wright, ex-Professor and certified life coach and I help everyone from PhD students to full Professors to get a bit less overwhelmed and thrive in academia. Please make sure you subscribe, and I would love it if you could find time to rate, review and tell your friends! You can send them this universal link that will work whatever the podcast app they use. http://pod.link/1650551306?i=1000695434464

I also host a free online community for academics at every level. You can sign up on my website, The PhD Life Coach. com - you'll receive regular emails with helpful tips and access to free online group coaching every single month! Come join and get the support you need.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the PhD Life Coach Podcast. I'm so excited because I'm gonna talk about my favorite topic, but I promise I'm going to try and make it relevant to PhD students in surviving academia and all that stuff. As usual, the topic, as some of you will know or suspect at least, is Celebrity Traitors.

I am mildly obsessed by like social deduction, reality TV type game. So I'm not so into the sort of let's get married ones, although I have watched those too. Not mocking anyone who watches those, but my favorites are the ones where there's a game, there's a puzzle, there's deceit. They're having to kind of figure each other out. There's challenges and just lots and lots of shenanigans. To give you an example of quite how obsessed I am, when I knew Celebrity Traitors was coming out in October, and I was super excited about it, I rewatched [00:01:00] all series of the UK Traitors, all series of Australian Traitors, all series of New Zealand and i'm currently on season two of US Traitors and I'd like to emphasize rewatching now. Any of you're like, hang on Vikki. How do you have time to do that? Is 'cause I have them on while I'm doing other things. I'm a TV while cooking TV while cleaning my teeth sort of a girl.

Anyway. So suffice to say I'm a little bit obsessed and we were all super excited about Celebrity Traitors here in the UK because whilst many of the people may not be globally famous, international students you may not know who they were, in the UK, this was quite the lineup. This was not yet average. I'm a celebrity, get me outta here, kind of are you really a celebrity kind of vibe. These were proper celebs and it was super, super exciting. It lived up to absolutely everything that I wanted it to be, and to be honest, all the way through, I was like, where's a little tenuous [00:02:00] connection to academia that I can use as an excuse to do another Traitors episode? Because if you haven't seen, oh, you did already do a Traitors episode, a year or two ago when it was series two on in the uk, the Harry and Paul series.

Um, so if you haven't checked that out, make sure you check it out. I'll link it in the show notes for you. But I really wanted there to be some tenuous reason for me to talk about traitors on the show, and I had to wait all the way to the finale, not just the actual final, but the spinoff show, Uncloaked actual finale, where they had all the celebrities in a theater like celebrating their finale and blah, blah, blah, and talking about their experience. It took me all the way to there. Then I saw it, and then from there I was just super, super excited and that is what we're gonna talk about today. 

So first thing before we go any further, big warning, huge spoilers. Huge. So especially if you are not in the UK [00:03:00] and you are gonna watch the Traitors at some point when it comes out in your country or you are not up to date. Massive spoilers. I'm gonna talk about the winner. Um, so winner or winners, um, in case you haven't turned off yet. So if you do not want to know what happens in Celebrity Traitors, you have to save this episode for another day. Short version. Everyone feels like an imposter and it's not true. There you go. That's the short version. You can now leave without having any spoilers.

My second request is at the end of this episode, I'm gonna talk about what I'm waiting for next, which is Irish Traitors, which is gonna come out in the UK any minute. We've been promised it in November. I'm super excited. If anyone spoils it for me, I will cry and I dunno what else, but you'll make me sad. So don't please do not spoil it. I'm aware that it has already been broadcast in Ireland. It is probably already been broadcast [00:04:00] in other places. I am super in love with the host, they're amazing, and I'm just really, really excited about it. So please don't, spoil it, please. Thank you. Appreciate it. Right.

So what was the moment? The moment was when the winner, alan Carr was being interviewed have immediately after he left the castle, so this wasn't like live in the finale. He was being interviewed immediately after he'd left the castle as he had just won. Celebrity Traitors and Ed Gamble was asking him about his experience and whether he thought that he was gonna win, and he conceded that um, I love this so much, that apparently his agent had booked jobs for him during the second week of the filming because they'd all assumed that he would be knocked out by then. And so he was starting to hint at this sense that he hadn't expected to do well. You know, this sense that he wasn't gonna be good at it and things and my little brain was like, Ooh, [00:05:00] imposter syndrome. Um. But then it went further and he said, and I've got it. Actually, I recorded it into my voice recorder so I have a transcript. It's possible I have too much time on my hands. Go with it. It's all good. And he said when Stephen Fry talks, or David, now David is, David Olusoga, who's an academic, a celebrity academic who is on the show and got into the final five. He says, I go quiet. I'm not worthy. I'm not intelligent, but I've learned maybe sometimes you do need to question stand up for yourself. And Ed said, well I think you winning has absolutely proved that and Alan said "idiots can do well". Some of you'll know that I'm not considering, I am actively going to do merch that you guys are gonna be able to buy. Um, idiots can, well might be one of the greats. 'cause I feel like it kind. Sums up what we all need to hear sometimes.

And when I heard this, my heart just went out [00:06:00] to him. So for context, those of you who are not based in the uk, I have no idea how globally famous Alan Carr is. Probably not at all 'cause I get the vibe he's very British, but he's. Like big, big, chat show, host, presenter, um, you know, he would be hosting like Saturday Night Live or something like that if he was in the US.

He's hilarious. He is also one of the guest judges on RuPaul's Drag Race. He's had tons of different series of his own. He is a big name. This is not a sort of C list celebrity. And the fact that when he's then around other celebrities and particularly celebrities who are well known for being very intelligent, he is having this sense that he doesn't have anything to say.

And if you've seen it, he actually like almost shrinks in on himself. He's like shoulders round and his head goes down. He almost like folds in like, I don't have anything to say when these intelligent people are there. And I just found it fascinating. This man's job is [00:07:00] talking to other people as well as being a comedian in his own right.

And it just really struck me that if someone like Alan Carr can feel like that, then anyone can feel like that. It actually reminded me of another story, which is not quite imposter syndrome, but it made me laugh. And if there are any parents out there, I feel like you'll appreciate this.

I saw Michelle Obama being interviewed about her daughters and the interviewer said something like, they must be so grateful to have all your wise advice and help. You know, that's such a privilege to have you as a parent. And she just started laughing and was like, are you kidding? She's like they think I'm an idiot. They don't listen to a word I say. I try and give them advice and they laugh. And then I say, people pay me millions of dollars for my advice. And they're like, yes, shut up, mom. And I'm just like, I'm done. This is great. If my stepchildren don't take me seriously, it's fine. Michelle Obama's kids don't take her [00:08:00] seriously either. Loved it. Anyway so it just really struck me that imposter syndrome can hit anybody at all.

And from there I thought, you know what, Vik, you could probably stretch just that thought to a whole episode. But is there anything else in the Traitors that has something to say about imposter syndrome? And it made me reflect on the final five. So those of you familiar with Traitors, the people that get through to the final really are kind of treated as winners in their own right? Yeah. It's the next step to be the one who wins the money. But if you make it to the final five, then that means you've done. All the missions you've seen off like 15, 20 other people, you are to all extents and purposes a winner. And particularly in this celebrity version where, you know, they were doing it for the money was for charity, not for themselves.

Then really what these people win is exposure. If they are in need of further exposure in their career and things like that. Making it to the Final Five really, really counts as winning in this context. [00:09:00] And I looked at the photos of the people who made it to the final five -more spoilers coming up- and it just struck me what a range of people it was.

What different approaches they had taken to the game. How personalitily, is that a word? I don't think that's a word. How personalitily and demographically they were very different from each other. Yet somehow they had all succeeded in their own way and they all seem to adore each other. That's one of the things, if any of you don't watch The Traitors 'cause you don't like the nastiness watch this version, 'cause they're gorge. They all adore each other. It didn't make them bad at finding traitors. It had to be said, but they just all adore each other.

So we had Alan Carr, the eventual winner who is giggling [00:10:00] and blushing. The dude couldn't even say, I am a faithful with a straight face without starting giggling yet somehow he still got away with it and won the entire competition. Okay. He is bumbling. He is hilarious. He is the exact opposite of cool, calm and collected, yet he was the one that carried out, well, two proper murders in plain sight, plus another one where they met on the chess board overnight. Obviously, as you do, and so managed to show that somebody who appears to be just a silly guy who's got no idea what's going on, actually was running the entire show under the surface.

Then we had Cat, Cat Burns the singer, who was the other traitor, and I think Cat Burns was pretty famous around amongst young people, amongst the youth , but she's not a household name by any stretch until now. [00:11:00] She is now very much a household name, and Cat Burns is literally the opposite of in terms of demeanor of Alan Carr.

She is calm, she is cool. She keeps her head. She can kind of fly under the radar a little bit, but people really like her so they don't criticize her for it. She talked quite a lot about being autistic and about feeling socially awkward and needing time to herself and not being sure whether she was gonna be able to play these sorts of social deduction games when she usually finds people exhausting.

And she came all the way to the final and she did absolutely amazing. And in fact, pretty much everyone who came out beforehand had nothing but amazing things to say about how she was, the type of person she was and what an incredible job she was doing as a traitor. In fact, she was many people's pick for the [00:12:00] winner.

Then we had David Olusoga, who is an academic. He's not, again, not super famous before this obviously a celebrity, but not super, super famous before this, he's got various TV shows where he talks about clever history related things, and he is. cool, calm and collected, but in a very different way from Cat. Cat is cool as well, right?

She's a musician, she's young, she's fashionable, she's very, very on trend, um, in the sorts of way where she doesn't follow trends. She kind of sets trends. David is very intellectual, very deep thinking. He's quite quiet. He wasn't as insightful as he thought he was gonna be. I think it's fair to say, but he got this far, right, and he was one of those people who really took his time to think things through often.

I think we think that cleverness is kind of a, quickness is the first one to understand something. He was much more of a, I need to [00:13:00] carefully ponder this kind of man, and he was amazing. He was probably I don't know my age, a little bit older, that kind of vibe. Lots of sort of slightly older people in this, which I think really, really added to the sense that this program was for absolutely everybody. So he took a very, very different route to the final. He'd been kind of accused a couple of times, but then managed to talk his way out of it. Again, not in a smarmy way, just in a kind of calm and considered way, presenting sort of feasible alternatives. He got a little bit of luck with the draw. That's a whole other story that we don't have time for, but it's good.

So he, again, a third really different character. And then we meet Nick Mohamed, who I adore at a level that is probably slightly unhealthy. You may have seen him in Ted Lasso. You may have seen him on Task Master. He is glorious. I adore him. He is how somebody [00:14:00] manages to be like the sweetest politest way.

The only way I can describe it is his mom must be so proud of him. In the very first thing before even the challenges started, they had to dig for a shield in their own grave, and he went and dug Celia's grave for her because, he didn't want her to have to do her own digging. So he looked for a shield for Celia before he'd even found his own shield.

This is the type of man he is. He's then ludicrously talented. You know, he just, oh, I play the violin. Who knew? He's a comedian, he's a magician. He's in the magic circle. When it got to the puzzle bits, he was just like, just let me, and did all the puzzles and like two seconds flat and. At the same time, he's just gloriously sweet and kind and humble, and I adore him, but he's very different from all of the others.

Super intelligent like the others, but just very sort of personable and [00:15:00] understated. All about the personal relationships. Really insightful. It still baffles me that he messed it up at the final stage. He got almost too clever at the final stage. But he has just secured himself as the nation's darling. I think it's fair to say.

And then finally last but certainly not least, was Joe Marla, huge rugby player, he's got big beard, he's massive, he's got cauliflower ears. He's hilarious. He is the king of the kind of one-liner put down that he has just enough twinkle in his eye to get away with.

And he played the game completely differently to any of them. He was, as you would probably expect, unbelievably competitive, unbelievably determined, really insightful, could totally spot not just what people were doing, but also what the people who made the program were likely to have chosen. So he came up with a whole big dog theory.

And he really [00:16:00] went hard on several of the traitors, and in fact, he knew who the traitors were. He just got super unlucky at the end. But he was a very, very different person. And it was just looking at physically, they're very different people. Joe Marler is a man mountain, Nick Hamed is miniature . You see them together, they're a whole range of ethnicities. They range of genders, they range of sexualities, and you see them all together and you're like, there's no way. How can you have one competition that all five of these very different people essentially excel at and where they all love each other and where they've all got completely different strengths that they're bringing to it?

And yet they all belong in something really important. And I think that's really important for us all to recognize 'cause I think sometimes we have this conception that there's a particular way you have to be to succeed in [00:17:00] academia and that there's a particular type of behavior, the particular personality style, a particular intellect style, a particular demographic, sometimes too, and.

I think this just really personified in that setting something that I see in academia, which is that that is simply not true. There are things that are traditionally more rewarded. That is for sure, and I'm gonna talk about some unconscious bias stuff in a minute, because this imperfect in traitors or in academia. But there is a whole variety of ways to succeed. There is a whole variety of personalities right at the very top of academia. There is a whole variety of personalities and skills that are succeeding and doing really well in academia. 

Remembering that what we really need to be is the best version of ourselves and bring that to academia, I think can be a great way of reducing and in time overcoming, our imposter syndrome. I get to [00:18:00] be the very best version of myself and bring that to academia. 

Now even amongst those that didn't make it to the top, so let's count the final five as like the professoriate, right? That they made full professor, they got tenure. That's the equivalent. There was a whole load of other people that participated in the game, participated in my academia metaphor, who didn't make it to the top, but had incredibly successful games. I mean, no one is going to forget Charlotte Church on her knees, in her white dress digging the grave, trying to look for shield covering herself in mud. Plunging her head into the well to listen to the music. If anybody threw themselves into that game, it was Charlotte Church. Everyone will remember her for that. Everyone will love her for that. Even though she didn't go all the way to the final five, she had a hugely successful game. Celia Imrie, I [00:19:00] said to my sister, what would I do if I told you this before? I can't remember. Might, should have done anyway, going with it. I said to my sister, Celia Imrie got called a queen and an icon in traces, and I said, what do I need to do to be called a queen and an icon? And the Lindsay said, I think it's too late already, Vikki, which I was hurt by. But Celia Imrie is, she's got 30 years on me, I reckon in 30 years I can do something to be called a queen and an icon. Anyway, I digress. Celia Imrie, amazing actress, known for being like super posh, super amazing actress friends with all my Judy Dench and all that lot like literally girl dreams. Who knew she was hilarious? Who knew that she was going to absolutely carry it there.

We had a castle full of comedians and Celia Imrie was the one that on multiple occasions made people laugh more than anything else. If you're not familiar with the fart incident, you need to check it out online 'cause I'm not even gonna describe it 'cause it's too [00:20:00] good. And you need to see the video version if you haven't already.

Um. My favorite was her honesty and authenticity. When it came, they were doing quizzes about who was the most, you know, who's leader of the pack and all that stuff. And they said, who's the most two-faced? And this is the one no one wants to receive. And Celia just shoved her hand up and goes, oh, I think that's me. I tell people I like them all the time, and I don't really, just the best thing I've ever heard in my entire life. I love her. She didn't win. She should have win. She was robbed. Alan, I'm not forgiving you for that one. But she went in there with people thinking she was one thing, demonstrating that she was something else and massively, massively winning in a metaphorical sense, the game in the sense that the entire country adores her.

And once this goes international, it has already, I'm sure to some extent. Everybody is going to completely adore her and just again, demonstrated a completely different way of [00:21:00] succeeding in this game. Now, was it perfect? I adore the traitors, but it has issues, issues that I believe are not specific to traitors, but that actually reflect the world that we live in, which is that there is a really, really troubling tendency across the entire traitors franchise for the people that are, eliminated initially to be disproportionately people of color, people who are not straight or not cisgender , people with disabilities. Essentially, people who are different in some way to others, and I don't actually believe that in the vast majority of cases that people are consciously saying, I am gonna eliminate the people who are different to me, or I don't want those people here. But what I think is happening, which happens in life as well, is this unconscious bias where if somebody is different to you, you give them less benefit of the [00:22:00] doubt than if they're more similar to you. And I think this is what happens a lot of the time in the traitors is that if somebody, so for example, we've had people who have later told us they have autism things being eliminated first. For example, when if at the beginning of the game you've got very little to go on. Somebody behaving in a way that seems a little odd to you, can be enough reason for them to go. Now in celebrity traitors this had another level to it. 'cause it had a level of celebrity hierarchy to it as well. 'cause I think it's fair to say that whilst it was a way better lineup than any of us anticipated, there was still a range and a range, not just in degrees of famousness but also in terms of who you were famous with. And I think it was apparent that the people who were either slightly less famous or who were more famous to younger people, so people who were famous through YouTube and things like [00:23:00] that went earlier than people that were kind of household multi-generational names.

And I think that's mirrored in academia too. I think there is a tendency that if people conform to the what might be considered the sort of norm, I guess, or the historic norm , people who conform more closely to that or people who have hierarchy and prestige on their side are given the benefit of the doubt more, or it's assumed that they fit and therefore these other people who are a little bit different maybe don't fit so much. And I think unfortunately, the same sorts of biases are very much true in academia. This is not the episode for a whole, how to deal with that. Maybe that's an episode I'll do in future. It's something that I'm addressing in the membership at the moment. What to do if people treat you like you're an imposter. I will translate some of that into a future episode. Give you a little glimpse of the sorts of things we do inside the membership.

But the [00:24:00] short version is that we don't beat ourselves up for experiencing it. Sometimes we can kind of gaslight ourselves that it's not real. Let's not beat ourselves up. That is evidence of intrinsic biases, unconscious biases in. Academia, there absolutely is. There's evidence of conscious bias in academia, so if you are experiencing it isn't just the figment of your imagination, however, what we do get to choose with support and love 'cause this is not straightforward. We get to choose how and if we internalize that, whether we make that mean that yes, we actually don't belong in academia and how we choose to respond, to what extent we choose to advocate, to what extent we choose to ignore. We get to make those decisions from a intentional place so that we show up as the best versions of ourselves as well. And importantly to recognize how we get support to do that. Because I do not believe that this is something that is for the people who are being discriminated against to solve on their own. These are structural [00:25:00] issues that we all should be trying to reduce.

So. Celebrity Traitors is not perfect. Academia is not perfect, but both are settings where a whole variety of different types of people can and do succeed. This has given me the perfect excuse to whitter about Celebrity Traitors to you all. I did a workshop last week. We got talking about Celebrity Traitors in the break. 'Cause it was the day of the final that evening. So at that stage we didn't know who'd won. We talked for so long, I forgot to start the next session and we had to run over. Oops. Anyway. It was super exciting. I hope you enjoyed listening to me squealing. I hope most of it was audible. I'm told that sometimes I'm only audible to dogs when I get excited. I hope all you can hear everything that I wasn't squeaking too badly. I hope you're excited about watching Irish traitors if you are based here in the uk and it is coming out to you soon too. No spoilers. Anybody. Please don't make me [00:26:00] cry. If you have any questions about imposter syndrome, make sure you're on my newsletter. You can just reply to that, ask me questions, and I will answer them in future episodes. Thank you so much for listening, and I will see you next week. 

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